Episode 92 - Lessons from Ultraman Australia with Denise Wilson
Lessons from Ultraman Australia with Denise Wilson
Ultraman Australia is a 3 day, ultra endurance event covering 515km (320 miles) of swim, bike and run.
What does it take to prepare for an event like this? And what lessons do you learn about yourself after completing it?
Denise Wilson, one of our Academy athletes shares her experience with you from her Ultraman Australia journey in 2022 and why she’s going back for more in 2024.
What is she doing differently this time around? From a training and nutrition perspective. And what has she been working on to set her 2024 event up for success.
Tune in to find out!
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Episode 92: Lessons from Ultraman Australia with Denise Wilson
Taryn Richardson 00:00
Welcome to the Triathlon Nutrition Academy podcast. The show designed to serve you up evidence-based sports nutrition advice from the experts. Hi, I'm your host Taryn, Accredited Practicing Dietitian, Advanced Sports Dietitian and founder of Dietitian Approved. Listen as I break down the latest evidence to give you practical, easy-to-digest strategies to train hard, recover faster and perform at your best. You have so much potential, and I want to help you unlock that with the power of nutrition. Let's get into it.
Taryn Richardson 00:36
Joining me on the podcast today is one of our Academy athletes, Denise Wilson, who is coming to us from Port Macquarie in New South Wales. And what I wanted to pick Denise's brain on today was her adventures with Ultraman Australia in 2022 as she prepares for Ultraman Australia 2024. So welcome, Denise,
Denise Wilson 01:03
Thank you. Hearing that date already makes me feel a bit nervous Taryn, but that's fine.
Taryn Richardson 01:07
What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger.
Denise Wilson 01:09
That's one of the lines in the Power List songs.
Taryn Richardson 01:13
Your hype songs. Your pump up songs.
Denise Wilson 01:15
Taryn Richardson 01:16
So good. So for somebody that doesn't know what Ultraman Australia is, do you want to explain what this crazy ultra endurance event is?
Denise Wilson 01:26
Absolutely. So it's a triathlon in its longest form. Day One is a 10 kilometre swim with 140 km ride with about 1500 metres of climbing. Day Two is about 283 kilometre ride with about the same level of climbing. And Day Three is a double marathon with hills. And I always like to add the 'with hills' bit as if a double marathon's not bad enough in itself. There's a 12 hour cut off each day. And if you don't make the cut off, then you proceed as being a ... I think it's a participant, rather than a finisher. And you have crew that are out there with you on the course across the three days. It's held in Noosa. Everyone says "Noosa - beautiful location"! The start and finish is beautiful. The rest of the 12 hours is pretty busy.
Taryn Richardson 02:13
And hilly - like it is not flat terrain through that part of the world.
Denise Wilson 02:16
No, no, it is a beautiful part of the world. But it is super hilly with a lot of climbing, particularly on the ride days.
Taryn Richardson 02:23
And it's not the only Ultraman event in the world. There's quite a few now. There's some in Brazil, Mexico, Spain, Canada, Hawaii.
Denise Wilson 02:31
Wales was the home of it, I think and Hawaii. There's something to do with branding that Australia Ultraman actually stands apart. So if you win Australia Ultraman (wasn't a huge issue I actually personally needed to consider) you can go to Hawaii, I guess it's the equivalent of Kona for Ironman athletes. But yeah, there are a few and I noticed on the entries this year, it's getting slightly more popular. Whatever that means. I guess people looking for a different type of challenge and adventure.
Taryn Richardson 03:02
Yeah. So if you're listening and you live in a different part of the world, you could Google and see if there's something in your area - if you've got the crazy gene like Denise does - that the longer the better. Yeah. So what on earth made you want to do an event like this?
Denise Wilson 03:16
I'm 59 this year. I took up triathlon in 2012. I took up running marathons in 2007 - so in my forties. So very recent career in Ultras. I lived in Sydney all of that time raising my family and working. Someone said to me, "Oh, there's an event happening that I'm crewing at that I think you'd really like". I hadn't done an Ironman. I hadn't done a 70.3 race. I might've done one? And I was probably swimming about a kilometre in the pool at that time. I learnt as an adult. And she said, "It's got all the things you like, it's got adventure, it's got community, it's got crewing". And that stayed in my mind. And in order to do Ultraman, you need to qualify and do an Ironman in a timeframe of 14 1/2 half hours. So therefore I decided to give up all the running to a certain extent, learn to swim, learn to ride in order to do that crazy race. It was just something that captured my excitement. And so in 2019 - 2018/2019, I did Ironman and qualified. And then, with COVID, 2022 was my year.
Taryn Richardson 04:22
And you loved it so much that you're going back for more. Why are you going back for more?
Denise Wilson 04:27
That's an interesting question that my close family/friends ask me each day. And I seriously thought about it because of all the things I wanted to get out of Ultraman I ticked 999. The one I didn't tick was finishing Day Three. And when I finished I had decided that I'd given my all to that race and I'd done my very best under the conditions and that was going to sit there. Ian and I then spent the next three weeks on the motorcycle in Western Queensland. And he's a person that obviously knows me well - after 37 years of marriage - because he looked at me as we were having a drink in the pub and says, "You want to go back and do that race again!" and I said, "Yes, I do". So definitely unfinished business with me. The bigger driver actually is I'm 60 next year. And when I was 50, I think I actually did my first triathlon - that was super important to me. And it's the only thing I can think of doing that year that's really going to drive me and make me satisfied. So that's what I'm putting my hand up for.
Taryn Richardson 05:28
I love your passion and drive Denise. It's one of my favorite things about you, you're a quiet little achiever, but lots of drive backing you there to even want to do something like that in the first place, and then go back and finish that business.
Denise Wilson 05:41
I did say I was going back. I'm now saying, I'm going to do a new race. It's not the other race. And there's a lot that I've learned there but this is actually a new race that I'm doing. It's not a repeat. And it's not a "I am using the tagline 'unfinished business' in my own mind", but I'm beginning to work through "Actually this is a new race".
Taryn Richardson 06:00
Yeah, I love that. That's a really nice way to think about it. After doing that event once, what are some of the things that you've learnt from that, that you can take with you for the next time?
Denise Wilson 06:10
I learnt out on course that I'm good enough, I have really high expectations of myself. And when I made the decision to stop that day, it was the right decision for me at that day - at that point in time. So I definitely learned that I'm good enough and it's not about comparison. The big things moving forward were: chafing was horrendous for me to the point that I was bleeding and criss crossing across my body. That was a big one that actually stopped me on Day Three, because of the level of flooding and rain and the water that we were going through. The other one was nutrition. And I thought that I had understood what I needed to do. I had paid attention to nutrition in my training. And I heard a podcast by Renee Ingram, and Renee was talking about what she was learning from you. And so then I went back and listened to some of your podcasts. And it realised that I had no idea! I was actually sort of embarrassed inside about how much I thought I had that right and how much I didn't. And armed with the knowledge that I've gradually built up through the three stages of the Academy, I realised my gap in learning was as if my only training for this event had been a sprint race, the shortest race possible, and I got it so wrong. And so definitely nutrition is the big one. There are other issues that I will do differently. I don't think I necessarily did them right or wrong on the days. But there are the issues like when a man says to me, "You look really cold, put some more layers on". Yes, kind of go with that advice on Day Three.
Denise Wilson 07:52
Thank you, husband.
Denise Wilson 07:54
Yep, thank you husband! There are other issues around the race that I will change. But that's because it's a different race. And that's because there's some new things I know. But nutrition mindset to a certain degree, particularly around swimming and around training. And going back to "Actually I'm good enough". I'll continue to work on that as well.
Taryn Richardson 08:15
So what are some of the things in your race and leading into a race that you did nutrition wise, that you know you definitely want to do differently, this next time?
Denise Wilson 08:23
I spoke with a nutritionist, not a sports dietitian.
Taryn Richardson 08:27
Oh, there's your mistake! It's, like, episode one of the podcast is what's the difference between those two?
Denise Wilson 08:34
Yeah, so I went to someone who I had been getting appropriate advice for different personal and sporting events in my life over a long period of time. So had a high level of trust with that person. And that was good. However, I should have actually understood the difference between the enormity of what I was doing, and where I could have gone for that advice. So that one's on me. I've always been quite a low carb athlete. And that has served me fine in my training and Ironman. This was obviously a very different beast. And so I didn't know what I didn't know. And so I didn't fuel - I might have been fuelling enough for training and recovery. Because during my prep my training load was towards the end around 25 hours a week. I work full time, children are at Uni, so I'm not in that, sort of, zone anymore. My recovery felt good. But during the three days, my food did not assist my recovery as well. So just got it completely wrong.
Taryn Richardson 09:40
You didn't get it wrong. You just didn't get it right.
Denise Wilson 09:44
Yes, that's true. I put the attention to the area, but I wasn't seeking the advice from the appropriate person. I'm not a researcher myself. I don't go on to Dr. Google and find out what I do. I do go to the experts in the area. That's my approach to life and training. And I didn't do that this time round. And I've ticked that box so thoroughly this time. That was one of my personal commitments, because part of going back is "Do I want to fail again?"
Taryn Richardson 10:07
You didn't fail! Change your language.
Denise Wilson 10:09
I know. But that is an element. I did not complete it. There is an element of soft failure if you want to call it that. And so I had to think that through in my own mind about going back again, and that's why I'm saying this is a new race. And this is the first time I will have raced Ultraman, as an athlete in my 60s. And it's the first time in 2024, I'm going to have raced that race. So I'm reframing that myself.
Taryn Richardson 10:33
Well change your language in the next, what? 12 months? to more positivity Denise.
Denise Wilson 10:38
I don't know. There's plenty of positivity there. Otherwise, I wouldn't be stepping on the start line. Believe me, Port Macquarie has a lot of lawn bowls clubs and I've been cruising by them to see what the uniforms look like. So I have very thoroughly sat with myself for the last three or four months to say, "Is this how I want to spend a large kind of 12 months of my life? And is this where I want to spend my time and my energy? Is this what excites me to do for myself in the next, really, 18 months? Because preparing for Ironman is part of my Ultraman journey.
Taryn Richardson 11:12
Yeah, that's a good little stepping stone into a three day Multi Day event. So some of the challenges that you had in the first one, and we've talked about this briefly, but like using the wrong sports products, feeling really full and bloated. And obviously, just significantly, under-fuelling, I think would be some of the key things. And then not backing up and recovering and filling your glycogen tank up after each day to backup and go again. Would that be fair?
Denise Wilson 11:38
No, that would be fair, and I think not filling my glycogen tank would be one of the most critical elements of that. And not understanding that the longer I went, the more I needed to fill that tank. And of course, the three day repeat about that as well, too.
Taryn Richardson 11:56
Yeah, because it's not distances to be sneezed at - it's 515 kilometres, or 320 miles over the three days. It is a lot of work. And it is on the lower intensity end in a way. So we are using some fat and some carbohydrate at that intensity. But the longer you go, the more so are you - so you're going to bonk or hit the wall unless you're replacing a whole heap of that at the time. And then being really aggressive about replenishing afterwards to go again for the next day for the exact same thing again.
Denise Wilson 12:28
And I think the extra challenge that I have is that I like to get value for money. So I'm out on the course for as long as possible. So with the 12 hour cut off, I am out there pretty close to that 12 hour mark. And so by the time I get back to their house to recover, it's almost time to go to bed to get up at four o'clock the next morning. So I've got to be making the most of all of that time on day one and day two, to fuel.
Taryn Richardson 12:56
Yeah, it's a very, very tight turnaround. So what are some of the things that you've now equipped yourself with, that you're more confident about, to toe that start line in 2024?
Denise Wilson 13:06
I will have a greater variety of food available to me across those three days. I used to eat in a very repetitive, narrow way. And I still do that to a certain extent but it's much improved to how it was. And so I will have a lot more options across the three days. But make sure that all of those options add up to the same numbers that I need across those three days. And my crew are really across my strategy. One of them is an Academy athlete, so they've experienced your advice. The other one is my daughter who has seen my athletic journey, as well as family. So they will really understand what I need and will be telling me to take that. I will just reprogram it all so differently. And rather than saying, "Oh give me one of these, or give me one of that" they will be handing me what I need at that time and I will be having that. So take any decision making out of it really will be the key. I'll also carb load. I don't think I carb loaded at all. Now don't look back. That's another learning - isn't that exciting. And I will have, for me, a lot more hot food. It was very heavy rain Day Two, Day Three. Day Three was really cold. And I needed more options of hot food because I was so cold and couldn't eat very well by then as well.
Taryn Richardson 14:29
Yeah, your mouth is pretty manky at the end of three days, particularly with like - you use those spring energy products with a lot of the gels which are quite thick and hard to get down. And their, kind of, philosophy is calories rather than carbs. So you might be chewing through a fair whack of calories but you're not actually doing any fuelling for those calories.
Denise Wilson 14:52
I will sit down with you and rewrite the plan and train on the plan and have it nailed in my head. And have it nailed for the crew, so that my body also knows what it's eating, what to expect to have, and how that works for me.
Taryn Richardson 15:07
Amazing. And you've been playing around with lots of products lately. Like, every time I talk to you, you're doing something different, which is good. And I think that's really important to highlight - it's not a one size fits all. You've got this plan, and it's fixed forever!? Like it can constantly change and evolve and even adapt for the different types of events that you're doing - like your Ironman race nutrition products, might be completely different to Ultraman race nutrition products. It's just a different beast. And so your nutrition needs to match that beast.
Denise Wilson 15:36
And also during the weather, Noosa can be really hot. It happened to be incredibly wet and cold when we were there. So I'll need to prepare for things that I'm really comfortable eating in hot weather, and have the cold weather options back as well, too.
Taryn Richardson 15:53
And one of the things that you probably don't realise you know how to do now is to adapt things on the fly and troubleshoot, which is also really valuable in a situation like that
Denise Wilson 16:04
I think that's something I've really learnt through the Academy because we talk about light, medium, heavy days, and I'm two and a half weeks out from Ironman Australia. So I have been adapting that training plan. And I've had the printed version that you and I chatted about in October when my training was a bit lighter. And then the printed version we chatted about in February, on the fridge. And I often sort of just go back to that just to double check. And this week, I couldn't find it. I've obviously put it somewhere else. And I thought every day right now is pretty heavy except for Thursday's actually for me right now. So I know what that adding looks and feels like. And sometimes I just go back to sort of double check how many carbs that is at dinner, or whatever that is, and I'm not fussing about it anymore. And it's not stressing me anymore. And of all the things I've learned in the Academy, it's (that) I'm not stressing about food, and it's not occupying 23 of my 24 hour waking thoughts around the stress about what I should be eating or drinking. So, you know, Ultraman sounds amazing. And it's exciting. And it's very important to me. But no race defines who I am. And so to have information now through the Academy, which means I can go and do any adventure, including lawn bowls, and feel really comfortable about what I'm eating and drinking, and enjoying, and not be worrying about it. That's a gift that I've been working on quite a lot for the last 10 years and most of my life. So that is the life changing step for me, wherever my race history and my athletic history or my adventure history winds up lying in the next few years.
Taryn Richardson 17:38
Yeah, that's amazing, Denise, we never really talked about that. But I think that's a really good outcome of getting some nutrition education is being able to quieten down those noisy voices in your head, because the dieting culture is massive. And eating for life is so different to eating for triathlon and it's just trying to get that balance, right? We need to think about food as fuel for performance, it's not a punishment, it's not something we restrict. And I think that's a really nice mentality to have, particularly as you head into a three day multistage event where food is going to have to be your friend - if you have any sort of qualms about it, then you're stuffed. So I think that's a really nice place to be - like nice to be there early as well - you've got a whole year to sit with that and work on that even further.
Denise Wilson 18:26
I think there are a couple of things I wouldn't have compromised in my life to go back and do Ultraman. One is I needed to know I had family support. And I've got that in tons for which I'm very grateful. And then I needed to know that elements of my crew are happy to front up again and the group of spotted women, that's not essential, but it's lovely to know that you're supported and loved and my Coach is willing to go for the ride again. But I also need to know that it's not going to make me an unhappy, stressed person, for those who I'm spending all my time with. And that's really critical with me. Yeah,
Taryn Richardson 19:01
Denise Wilson 19:01
Taryn Richardson 19:02
Yep, it's all absorbing in a way. Have you got the same coach for this one as you did for the last one?
Denise Wilson 19:07
I do. And I'm very fortunate that I work with Ben Johnson at Smart Coaching in Port Macquarie. And Ben is another quiet achiever actually. He comes up with different options. He takes on board my thoughts and very much my feelings. Really works with me to have a positive mindset around what I'm doing but not unrealistic and is just there with different ideas and different approaches and can eyeball me at swim squad and know it's been a hard work day or someone's telling me to swim faster where that's not physically possible for me. He'll just nicely say "No, no, just get in and swim. Don't overthink it. Focus on what you can focus on." And how lucky am I to choose Port Macquarie and not even know such a wonderful coach was here for this crazy race.
Taryn Richardson 19:55
There you go! So are you doing anything differently with him then from a training perspective - from Ultraman #1 to Ultraman #2?
Denise Wilson 20:03
Yes, so we've just worked in the lead up to Ironman, where my work has been really busy. So I've been running on, for me, a slightly lower volume, which is actually really important for Ultraman, because as you say, you can't go out and train those distances all the time. So that's a really good mindset for me. We're working on me understanding that I'm actually quite a good swimmer - that being in the back of the lane is fine. I'm training for an Ultraman, and I'm an adult learning to swim over the last 10 years. But I am more competent than I ever give myself credit for in terms of swimming. Working on my power for the ride, and my pacing and confidence for the run, and working on my recovery as well. But when we sat down after the race, and I actually had a real conversation with Ben about, "I really want to go and do this. What do you think?" We were very much aligned on if I can tighten my swim time - I was five hours 10, the swim time cut off is five and a half hours. If I can pull that back a bit, my ride comes back a bit, I get into bed a bit earlier on Day One that sets me up successfully for Day Two. So that's what we're looking at.
Taryn Richardson 21:10
Okay. And any particular sessions you're introducing or any different strategies that you can share with us that you're going to do this year?
Denise Wilson 21:18
I did some really big events. I did 2 x 12 hour days in the Victorian Alps on the bike where we climbed crazy Everesting in January. And then in March, I did a crazy one day race in the Snowy Mountains. I won't do those events, this time around that took a lot of time and energy and in some ways, built a lot of confidence. But it also took a lot of recovery. So I will be far more careful in what I sign up for that - then poor Ben has to program. I'll actually check with the coach first - that would be most exciting, rather than saying, "Oh, that looks good. Let's go and do that".
Taryn Richardson 21:53
Be a good athlete and do what you're told!
Denise Wilson 21:55
Exactly. And also, I'm actually going to take six months off work. Ian and I run our own company and have done so for the last 30 years. And I've decided to give myself long service leave. So I will not not work five days a week, and I will run the company and work with my team. So keep a hand in there but not be doing the work. So I just think that opens up a whole different aspect to my recovery and my stress and my training. Yeah.
Taryn Richardson 22:23
And if you want to have a nap, you can have a nap. Or you could spend all day eating if you need to.
Denise Wilson 22:28
All the options.
Taryn Richardson 22:30
Or you could just go train all day if you needed to as well.
Denise Wilson 22:33
You know, one of the very simple things for me is I might do my long days, Wednesday, Thursday, Fridays, and on Saturdays and Sundays, I LOVE Park Running Port Macquarie with Port Pacers - it's one of my favourite things in life. That doesn't get a guernsey if I'm out there riding all Saturday. So I'll be able to pull some of those beautiful things into my social life because most of my social life is either around training or book club and include those.
Denise Wilson 22:56
Or work, right?
Denise Wilson 22:58
Taryn Richardson 23:00
That's amazing. That sounds like a nice little balance. I'm actually really excited to see what you can do when you don't have to work five days a week in a high stress, crazy job.
Denise Wilson 23:09
Yeah, well, one of the things I realised is "Oh, training will be my job"!
Taryn Richardson 23:13
Yeah. full time athlete.
Taryn Richardson 23:15
Yeah. Aren't I the lucky one to be able to do that as well, too? I very much appreciate I've got the ability to do that. And the body that just seems to love the long stuff. So that's good. Yeah.
Taryn Richardson 23:26
So exciting. I'm looking forward to seeing that. So when will you take time off? From December onwards or a little bit earlier?
Denise Wilson 23:33
August the 11th.
Denise Wilson 23:34
This year. Yeah. So August to May. I'm going overseas for two weeks with my mother's group to Sicily, which is so, so much fun. And then I will come back and we'll have a training block and take it from there.
Taryn Richardson 23:34
Taryn Richardson 23:48
So good. So what's the grand plan then Denise? Do you want to go to Ultraman World Championships? Like, what's after?
Denise Wilson 23:55
Well, over winter, I'm seeing how many things I can qualify for the World MultiSports in Townsville. And because I'll be in the 60 plus age group, I'm really hoping there's not 25 female athletes who want to do the cross country triathlon. So I actually will spend my birthday in Townsville, so that will be nice.
Taryn Richardson 24:14
Or the long course Worlds?
Denise Wilson 24:16
No, not interested in that. One of my values is I like to be able to drive places with my bike and not have to put my bike together. So Townsville will be it. And then, and I don't want to ever say my long course or my extra long course career has finished, however, realistically, I think I'll go and pursue different adventures. So it might be like a long ride or a long swim or a long run - not the level of stress that that obviously puts on my body - and does put on those around me as well too. But I'm pretty open to what the next adventure is.
Taryn Richardson 24:49
So I know you a little bit better than you think I know you and I know that there's something coming - you’re just not going to tell us yet.
Denise Wilson 24:56
That's really interesting because I would actually usually agree with that Taryn. I feel there's not another Ironman in me.
Taryn Richardson 25:03
That's because you're two weeks away from an Ironman! No one two weeks away from an Ironman wants to do another Ironman.
Denise Wilson 25:08
No, no - because I don't have to pay for accommodation because I live in Port Macquarie.
Taryn Richardson 25:12
The run course is right out the front door.
Denise Wilson 25:14
Yeah, exactly. No, it's actually - my son, when I was talking to him about the race, he said to me something really good. He said, I really like to do different events. And I really like to do ones that are a bit left of centre. And I think Alec is really right. And I like to do events where family can come. So that largely is Australia, although I'm sure they'd all volunteer for an overseas trip. So yeah, there will be something. I'm thinking it might be an off roading type thing.
Taryn Richardson 25:41
Yeah, yeah. So good. You could do Coast to Coast in New Zealand.
Denise Wilson 25:44
I did listen to Kirsty's podcast. The thing that did interest me was there's an athlete called Donna Marshall, who did ... she ran to Dover from London Bridge, then she swam the English Channel, then she rode a bike to Paris! Even I've figured I'm not swimming the English Channel. And I'm very comfortable saying I would have loved that race. But no - my ability is not to swim the English Channel.
Taryn Richardson 26:06
It's a long day in the water.
Denise Wilson 26:07
It'd be a long year in the water, Taryn!
Taryn Richardson 26:10
You'd get really good at swimming, though.
Denise Wilson 26:13
Yeah, I'm also really passionate about women, and then looking at opportunities in sport and running their own business. So there's a lot of things that I hope I can continue just to support other women doing whatever makes them happy.
Taryn Richardson 26:27
Yeah, amazing. You'll always have your fingers in some sort of pie doing something, Denise. You're not the type of person that sits still and does nothing.
Denise Wilson 26:34
No, no, not at all, though a little bit of reflection goes a long way too Taryn.
Taryn Richardson 26:37
Yes. Well thank you so much for joining me and sharing your insights into Ultraman. I know that there's a lot of people that'll listen and be like, "She's crazy". And there's a lot of people that'll listen that go, "I want to do that, too". So thank you for sharing those insights. There's nothing on the internet about stuff like that. I talked to Jody a while back who did Ultra 355 and trying to do research for the event and how you prepare and what it's actually like - nothing exists like that. So if anybody's out there and wants to ask you a question about Ultraman, how would they find you?
Denise Wilson 27:11
They'll find me on Facebook. They'll find me on Insta, where you'll ... I'll be tagged in the post. Otherwise, ask Taryn, and she'll give you my details. That's all good.
Taryn Richardson 27:21
All right. I'll put those links in the show notes too. But good luck. And congratulations for everything you've achieved so far. And we'll get you back. If you want to talk about it after Ultraman 2024.
Denise Wilson 27:33
I'm sure I'll be happy to talk about it and I will have another adventure by then too.
Taryn Richardson 27:37
Yep, sounds good. Thanks, Denise.
Denise Wilson 27:39
Taryn Richardson 27:40
Thanks for joining me for this episode of the Triathlon Nutrition Academy podcast. I would love to hear from you. If you have any questions or want to share with me what you've learned, email me at [email protected] You can also spread the word by leaving me a review and taking a screenshot of you listening to the show. Don't forget to tag me on social media, @dietitian.approved, so I can give you a shout out, too. If you want to learn more about what we do, head to dietitianapproved.com. And if you want to learn more about the Triathlon Nutrition Academy program, head to dietitianapproved.com/academy. Thanks for joining me and I look forward to helping you smashed in the fourth leg - nutrition!